Tag Archives: England

With the Yanks at Cambrai 1917

On the 8th August 1917, a train pulled into the Harbour Station on the Mole in Folkestone. The soldiers on board detrained and embarked on one of the small ships waiting to take them to France. They were an American unit, the 11th Engineers Regiment (Railway).(1) Two men from the Regiment Sergeant Matthew Calderwood and Private William Branigan, became the first American Army Casualties on the Western Front when they were wounded by shellfire on the 5th September 1917. Also on the train and an officer in the regiment was Lieutenant Paul McLoud.

The regiment was on there way to help maintain, repair and expand the railway system prior to the Battle of Cambrai. The railway was used to bring the tanks forward to the assembly points prior to the attack. On the arrival of the tanks at the railhead the 11th Engineers  helped to assemble them. (2)

On the 3oth November 1917 the 11th were working on the railway line between Villers (Plouich) and Epethy when the Germans broke through. Retreating back to their camp to collect their weapons, a group of men from the 11th under the command of Lt Mcloud fought a fighting retreat and rear guard action near Gouzeaucourt.  For his part in the action Lt Paul Mcloud is awarded the American, Distinguished Service Cross. His citation reads:

Awarded for actions during the World War I

The President of the United States of America, authorized by Act of Congress, July 9, 1918, takes pleasure in presenting the Distinguished Service Cross to First Lieutenant (Corps of Engineers) Paul McLoud, United States Army, for extraordinary heroism in action while serving with 11th Railway Engineers, A.E.F., at Gouzeaucourt, France, November, 30, 1917, in remaining under shell fire until the escape of his men, who had been caught unarmed by the German attack, was assured. First Lieutenant McLoud then assisted in leading troops to the trenches, directing the procurement and distribution of ammunition, and displaying coolness, and judgment while continually under fire.

General Orders: War Department, General Orders No. 129 (1918)

Action Date: 30-Nov-17

Service: Army

Rank: First Lieutenant

Regiment: 11th Railway Engineers

Division: American Expeditionary Forces (3)

Paul was also awarded the Military Cross from the British for his bravery on the 30th November. Unable to find his citation, but came across this;

paul mcloud(4) Clearly shows Paul Mcloud’s awards.

REFERENCES

  1. Jones, Raymond W, WW1 Officer Experience Reports AEF
  2. http://www.webmatters.net/france/ww1_cambrai_us.htm
  3. http://valor.militarytimes.com/recipient.php?recipientid=13549
  4. The original source for this image was http://www.archives.nysed.gov/. This copy from Fold3. Image url: https://www.fold3.com/image/591030625
    Publication Title: New York, Abstracts of World War I Military Service, 1917-1919
    Content Source: New York State Archives

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Private 61613 William Habberley #Went to France via Folkestone #FWW

Border Regiment

Born in Warrington. He became a plumber before he enlisted in the Army at Liverpool on the 4th February 1913 at the age of 19 years and 2 months. He first joined for duty Joined the Royal Welsh Fusiliers. The same day he is sent to Carlisle. Here he is attached to the Border Regiment at their Depot. 8th February 1913 he is transferred to the Border Regiment at Carlisle. 28th April 1913 he is drunk in barracks this time he is admonished. This is probably due to being posted to the 2nd Battalion at Pembroke Dock the next day.

24th May 1913, Drunk in Barracks he was fined 2/6 and Confined to Barracks for 7 days. It was to be the first of many Confinements to Barracks and fines for drunkenness in his time in the Army. 29th May 1913, Irregular Conduct, 10 Days Confined to Barracks. 6th September 1913 breaking out of barracks after tattoo, being drunk in Water Street at around 10:25 pm, 14 Days Confined to Barracks. 29th November 1913 Posted to 2nd Battalion. Then on the 10th February 1914, he is posted again this time to the 1st Battalion. He embarks on the Troopship Plassy to India. Hebberley arrived in India on the 5th March 1914. Sailing onwards to Rangoon on the Troopship Northbrook. Reaching Rangoon on the 13th March. After Rangoon, the battalion moved to Maymyo where it was based when war broke out. Returning to with the Battalion to Calcutta on the troopship HMT “Novara” on the 21st November 1914 they arrived in Calcutta on the 25th November 1914. Here they spent just over a fortnight before embarking on the Troopship HMT “Corsican” for Rugby via Avonmouth. The 1st battalion arrived at Rugby on the 11th January 1915. While at Rugby, 13th February 1915 Not complying with (an order? Writing on change sheet not clear) and insolence to an NCO, 8 Days Confined to Barracks. 16th February 1915. Drinking in the Globe Public House while on duty.168 hours detention. The battalion was posted to Gallipoli via Egypt and left from England on the 16th March 1915. During his time in the Dardanelles Hebberley continued his low level of insubordination and on the 25th July 1915, he was awarded 7 days FP No.2 for an improper reply to NCO. A month later on the 25th August 1915, he is wounded in action a severe wound in abdomen three weeks later on the 14th September 1915 his father is notified. From Gallipoli, he is sent on the 28th September 1915 to 15th General Hospital Alexandria, and on the 25th October embarked on HMH Mauritania at Alexandria for England. After a stay in hospital he is posted on the 11th November 1915 to the Regimental Depot at Carlisle. 23rd December 1915. he overstayed his furlough from tattoo until 9 pm on the 29th December, (5 days and 23 hours ). He is Confined to Barracks for 7 days.1st January 1916 he is posted to 3rd Battalion. On the 3rd May he embarked from Southampton for France. The first three weeks were spent at 7 Infantry Base Depot Le Havre before being posted to the 2nd Battalion. He joined them in the field on the 25th. On the 1st of July he receives a wound to his left wrist. Evacuated home via 23 Field Ambulance, 38 Casualty Clearing station, 3 Stationary Hospital Rouen, and the Hospital Ship “St Patrick” to England. Reaching on the University Hospital in Gower Street, London on the He will spend 30 days in Hospital before being released on the 3rd August 1916 (posted to Depot) On the 15th September 1916 he is transferred to the 5th Garrison Battalion Royal Welsh Fusiliers. At Beblington on the 7th October 1916 he is Absent from Tattoo, (until 8th October), and he is again Confined to Barracks for 7 days. Then at Leasowe Castle on the 9th December 1916 he is charged with Absence from Police Duty and Insolence to an NCO. As a result, he was sentenced on the 11th December 1916, to 21 days FP No.2 for misconduct. Later at Aintree on the

17th February 1917 he is Absent from Tattoo for two days. Yet again he is Confined to Barracks for 7 days. 7th May 1917 he is transferred to 3rd Battalion Borders Regiment. In October he is posted to France. He embarked from Folkestone 19th October 1917 arrived Boulogne and joined 25 Infantry Brigade depot at Etaples the same day. He joins the 2nd Battalion in the field on the 30th October 1917. 10 days later the battalion moves to Italy. 11th March 1918 he is admitted to 23 Field Ambulance, then 37th Casualty Clearing Station and on 13th March 1918 11 General Hospital Genoa due to sickness. After which he spent a week at the Convalescent Depot in Genoa before being posted back to the Base Depot at Arquata on the 26th April 1918. Posted to 14 Corps Reinforcement camp on the 5th May. He went absent from his billets on the 30th June 1918 for which he was awarded 7 days FP No.1. 4th August 1918 he is posted to 24th Battalion Manchester Regiment (Pioneer Battalion). Another posting follows on the 14 February 1919 this time to the 22nd Battalion Manchester Regiment. Hebberley unsurprisingly never seemed to have been promoted. That was to change on the 22nd April 1919 when he is appointed unpaid Lance Corporal. Being promoted does not last long. The 6th May 1919 sees him in Egypt still with the 22nd Battalion. On the 12 May 1919 he is deprived of his Lance/Corporal stripe for drunkenness, while on active service, and absent until apprehended by the Military Police. There is a break from the routine duties of being a soldier in Egypt when on the 10th June 1919 he embarked from Alexandria for Constantinople on escort duty. Back to his old ways on the 11th November 1919, fined 7/6 for drunkenness in Cairo. 7 days Confined to Camp. 29th November 1919 Absent in town without a pass while on active service. 14 days confined to barracks. After 7 years in the Army, he embarked at Alexandria for the UK to be demobbed on the “Panama” 3rd March 1919. As far as is known William Habberley survived into the 1970s.

He was awarded the 1914-1915 Star, British War Medal, and the Victory Medal.

1 wife, 2 Husbands and, 1 grave #FWW

19970810_10211935516414705_2102724859_nThis is the grave of Albert (Bert) Corporal 9183 of the 2nd Buffs (East Kents). He married Gladys Faircloth in December 1917 in Canterbury, Kent, England. Probably they married in the same church, St Dunstan, where his grave is. It is a pretty little church, better known as the final resting place of St Thomas More’s head than it is for First World War Graves. Of which Albert’s grave is the only one. It is though, an interesting grave and makes an interesting read.

“In Loving Memory of Albert (Bert) Goldsack. Late Cp. of 2nd Buff

Late Cp. of 2nd Buffs

The Dearly Loved Husband of Gladys Goldsack

Who died at Lenham Novr 28th 1918.

Aged 27

Also of

Com Sgt H L Faircloth

7th Sussex Battn

First Husband of The Above

Killed In Action Dec 28th 1915

Age 25

Erected by their sorrowing wife

After their country called them.”

Lenham, where Bert died, was a War Hospital near Ashford. Bert was a wounded soldier being treated there. He had served in France and been given a Silver War Badge.

H. L. (Henry Latham) Faircloth, a Company Quartermaster Sarjeant in the 7th Royal Sussex enlisted in 1908. Henry married Gladys on the 6th March 1915. He crossed from Folkestone with the Battalion at the end of May 1915.  The CWGC  lists his date of death as the 22nd December 1915. The War Diary indicates he was killed on the 28th and his Medal Card records him as being KinA on the 28th. He is buried in Guards Cemetery, Windy Corner, Cuinchy.

Not known if Gladys married again.

 

#Shorncliffe’s other Air Raid Victims #FWW #Folkestone

The story of the bombing on the 25th May 1917 is well known. The burials of the Canadian Soldiers killed led to the Canadian Day Memorial Service now held annually at Shorncliffe Military Cemetery. Not quite as well known is that 13 other Canadian Soldiers all from theCanadian Field Artillery who were killed in an earlier air raid were buried there. I say were because only the remains of 12 still lay buried at Shorncliffe. Sgt 42623 Edward Charles Harris’s remains were repatriated and now rest in St Catherines Cemetery Toronto.

The air raid occurred on the 13th October 1915 at Otterpool Camp. Zepplin L14 dropped four bombs on the camp killing 14. Another soldier 86687 Harry James Rixon died on the 15th, he is buried at Easthamstead. One other soldier 86398 Pringle Borthwick is buried in Wilton Cemetery, Hawick.

The soldiers killed in the air raid on the 13th October 1915 at Otterpool and are buried in Shorncliffe Military Cemetery  are:

IMG_8547.JPGCharles Boeyckens, a Belgian from Antwerp who enlisted in the Canadian Expeditionary Force. Buried apart from the other soldiers killed, he is buried very close to the Belgium plot in the cemetery in Plot C.123

The others are buried in Plot O numbers O.303-O.313 inclusive. They are:

IMG_853086372 David John Philips. Plot O.303

IMG_853186436 Sydney George Lane who was born in Burgate Hampshire. Plot O.304

IMG_853286503 Ernest William Bayes who hailed from Walthamstow in Essex. Plot O.305.

IMG_853386463 Richard Dyer Simpson. Plot O.306

IMG_853486474 Richard Stewart Truscott. Plot O.307

IMG_853586676 Charles Gordon Peterkin Plot O. 308

IMG_853686658 Wilfred George Harris. Plot O.309.

IMG_853786552 Samuel McKay. Plot O.310.

IMG_853886791 Thomas Dickson. Plot O.311

IMG_853986777 Henry Adrian Horn. Plot O.312. The epitaph reads “Fear not them who can kill the body but are not able to kill the soul.”

IMG_8542400004 Douglas Routledge Johnston. Plot O.313. The epitaph reads “Till the morning breaks and the shadows flee away”.

Sources

Surrey History Forum

Kent History Forum

CommonwealthWar Graves Commission Website

Service Records of Canadian Soldiers WW1

 

Here is a soldier who will be in “The Book” Thomas Kenny. #Folkestone, #Castleford, #FWW.

Like the majority of British Soldiers who fought in the First World War Thomas Kenny returned home and a normal civilian life. In Thomas’s case, this was as a working collier.

13th (Service) Battalion Durham Light Infantry. A K3 Battalion in 68th Brigade, 23rd division. 3 A and B Companies entrained at Liphook at 7:55 pm., C and D Companies at 8:25 pm. On arrival at Folkestone they embarked on transport 2031.4

Private 17424 Thomas Kenny

13th Battalion Durham Light Infantry.

Thomas Kenny was a collier and lived at 23 Queen St Castleford. He attested on the 25th February 1915 and crossed to France from Folkestone with the 13th Battalion Durham Light Infantry. He is awarded the Victoria Cross for an action on the 4th November 1915. The Citation reads as follows:

No. 17424 Private Thomas Kenny, 13th (Service) Battalion, The Durham Light Infantry. For most conspicuous bravery and devotion to duty on the night of 4th November 1915, near La Houssoie. When on patrol in a thick fog with Lieutenant Brown, 13th Battalion, Durham Light Infantry, some Germans, who were lying out in a ditch in front of their parapet, opened fire and shot Lieutenant Brown through both thighs. Private Kenny, although heavily and repeatedly fired upon, crawled about for more than an hour with his wounded officer on his back, trying to find his way through the fog to our trenches. He refused more than once to go on alone, although told by Lieutenant Brown to do so. At last, when utterly exhausted, he came to a ditch which he recognised, placed Lieutenant Brown in it, and went to look for help. He found an officer and a few men of his battalion at a listening post, and after guiding them back, with their assistance Lieutenant Brown was brought in, although the Germans again opened heavy fire with rifles and machine-guns, and threw bombs at 30 yards distance. Private Kenny’s pluck, endurance and devotion to duty were beyond praise.”5

Thomas may have transited through Folkestone to France on one more occasion as he was presented with the VC at Buckingham Palace by King George V. on the 4th March 1916.6 He is the first soldier from the Durham Light infantry to be awarded the Victoria Cross in the First World War.7 During 1917and again in 1918, this time a gunshot wound to the lower back. He returned home on the 30th October 1918 and was discharged from the army on the 26th September 1919. 8

Thomas was also awarded the 1914-1915 Star, British War Medal and the Victory Medal.9 Thomas Kenny V.C. Died on 29th November 1948.

3British Regiments 1914-1919 page 101

4 13th DLI Battalion War Diary

5 London Gazette, 7th December 1915, Supplement:29394,Page:12281

8 Pension Record.

9 Medal Card.

#Shorncliffe and the Great #Folkestone Air Raid 25th May 1917. #WW1 #FWW

This blog is only concerned with the burials in Shorncliffe Military Cemetery. Bombs were dropped in various places. One person was killed in Ashford, two in Hythe. Other places throughout Kent were also bombed on the same day.

Six bombs fell on the Army Camp at Shorncliffe. Eighteen people were killed by these bombs. There are five other victims buried in the cemetery there. Two are civilians. May Arnold and Francis Harry Considine, they are included in the list. The people who died were from America, Belgium, Canada and England. The five victims of the bombings elsewhere are; May Arnold(Folkestone), Francis Considine(Cheriton), George Bloodworth(Folkestone), Constante Houdard(Folkestone) and, Hyppolite Verschueren(Folkestone). Houdard and Verschueren are buried in unmarked graves in the Belgium plot in the cemetery.

IMG_8043

An American citizen he was born in Indiana. His attestation papers record he attested at Windsor Ontario on the 22nd December 1916 Injured in the air raid on the 25th May 1917. he died of wounds at 9pm the next day.

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May Alexandra Arnold age 21, the widow of Freddie Arnold a Canadian soldier who was shot at dawn. May was wounded by the bomb that hit her home, 19 Bouverie Road East. Taken to the hospital at Moore Barracks Shorncliffe, May died of her wounds later that day.

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George Henry Bloodworth was born in Lee in Kent. Injured by one of the bombs that fell on Bouverie Road East he died at West Cliff Hospital with injuries to the Head and Heart.(Details are from http://sussexhistoryforum.co.uk/index.php?topic=7293.0;wap2 25/11/2016)

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William Brown. His service record shows he attested on the 18th October 1916. He was taken on strength at Shorncliffe on the 30th April 1917. there does not appear to be a record of his promotion to Sergeant.

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James Alexander Bruce attested on the 5th December 1916 in the Draft Siege and Heavy Artillery. There is a note on his attestation papers that he was too small for the Heavy Artillery. He was awarded the British War Medal.

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Little Frances was killed by the bomb that fell on Cheriton. Buried in Shorncliffe because his father was in the Canadian Army.

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Jules Benjamin Alfred Desaleux was born in London, England. He lived with his wife Alice in Winnipeg Manitoba. Prior to emigrating to Canada Jules had served for a year in the 24th Battalion City of London Royal West Surrey Regiment. He attested on the 8th January 1917 in Winnipeg and he arrived at Schorncliffe on the 22nd April.

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Arthur Doig the son of Andrew and Maggie Murray of Birtle Manitoba, attested on the 7th March 1916. Hee arrived in England on the 4th May and was taken on strength at Shorncliffe on the 15th.

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The Screen Wall at the Belgian Plot at the Cemetery on which Constante Houdard’s name is inscribed.(see Below)

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Houdard C Belgian Soldier no other details are known.

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Oron Alfred Jenner enlisted in the “Bantams” on the 23rd February 1916. On his attestation papers, it is recorded that he had previously served in the Q.O.R (Queens Own Rifles) for five years. Oron arrived at Liverpool on the 29th April 1917 and taken on strength of  the 3rd Reserve Battalion Canadian Infantry at West Sandling on the 30th. He was still on the strength of the 3rd Reserve Battalion when he was killed at Shorncliffe.

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James McArthur. (As of 24/11/2016 service record not yet available online)

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Robert MacDonald attested on the 5th March 1917 at Winnipeg Manitoba.

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Hugh McNair (Records not available 24/11/16)

IMG_8054

James McNulty born in Valley City, North Dakota. He is listed in The Foreign Burial of American War Dead: A History by Chris Dickon. James lived in Edmonton Alberta. Prior to enlisted on the 1st December 1916, he had served with the 101st Edmonton Fusiliers a Militia Unit. The Militia in Canada were traditionally the Canadian Reserve.

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Charlie Marshall was born in London England in 1894. He attested in Crystal City Manitoba on the 8th April 1916. Initially recorded as killed in action May 25th 1917 his service record was altered to died from wounds May 26th 1917. He bequeathed his real estate and personal estate to Miss Nattie Maybe, Port Rowan, Ontario. He arrived at Shorcliffe  on the 30th April. On the 18th May he attended the West Cliff Canadian Eye  and Ear hospital in Folkestone for an eye test. The Senior Medical officer 2nd Canadian Reserve Brigade confirmed on the 25th May that glasses had not been ordered.

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Albert William Merchant was born in Little Oakley in Essex. He attested in Winnipeg where he lived with his wife Lillian, on the 26th March 1916. He arrived at Shorncliff on the 30th April 1917.

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John Miller, the son of Agnes shaw, attested in the 2/4th BattalionSouth Lancashire Regiment on the 22nd March 1916. Just under eleven moths later on the 16th February 1917, he crossed with the battalion to France from Folkestone. On the 31st March, he is admitted to 1 Australian Casualty Clearing Station with Haemorrhage of the Lung. April the 5th and he is on the Hospital Ship “Princess Elizabeth bound for Dover. From Dover, he is transferred to Hospital at Shorncliffe. His discharge papers were signed on the 21st May and he is awarded a Silver War badge. John’s discharge was to be on the 1st of June as being no longer  physically fit for war service.  His British War and  Victory Medals are sent to Mrs Elizabeth Show Lyon Street Warrington on the 1st February 1922.

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Frank Padley was born in Nottingham, England. His parents Harry and Elizabeth Padley, lived in, Carrington, Nottingham, England.  He lived in Antler Saskatchewan where he was a farmer. Frank attested in Winnipeg on the 30th May 1916. He was unmarried.

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Ralph Pelluet was born in London. The family emigrated to Canada as  his father lived in Athabaska in  Alberta. Ralph worked as a bank clerk and lived in North Battleford Saskatchewan. He attested in Winnipeg on the 26th May 1916.

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Jack Sutherland was born in Bradford Ontario and lived at Palmer House Regina in Saskatchewan. He worked as a CPR Checker (Canadian Pacific Railways?) attested in Winnipeg on the 10th April 1916.

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Ernest Tennyson worked as a Lumberman. gave Mansion House Winnipeg as his current address on his attestation papers. Next to “Next of Kin” is the word “None” crossed out J F Davidson is handwritten  “Friend” is also handwritten next to “Relationship to next of kin”. Ernest was 37 when he died.

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Looking across part of the older section of the cemetery to the screen at the Belgian Plot on which Hyppolite Verschueren’s name is inscribed.

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Hyppolite Verschueren resided in sandgate Road. He died as a result of the bombing of Tontine Street, no other details known.

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Lloyd Garfield Yeo was born in St Thomas Ontario in 1898. Prior to being attested into the Canadian Mounted Rifles in October 1915, Lloyd had served a year in the 25th Regiment.

Notes on Sources

Names of Soldiers and some are from the Commonwealth War Graves Commission web site.

Other details where possible were taken from the soldier’s service records

May Arnold and Little Francis Considine’s information came from their gravestones, th free page on ancestry about the Air Raid

Name checks were carried out by referring to the companion volume to A Glint in the Sky by Martin Easdown with Thomas Genth.

All photographs, no matter how bad, were taken by myself, no one else shares any responsibility for them, what so ever.

 

 

#Folkestone/Shorncliffe, and the American Connection #FWW

Much has been written about the Canadian connection with Folkestone during the Great War. the connection is still commemorated every year on the 1st of July in a touching ceremony at Shorncliffe Military Cemetery. The Shorncliffe Trust is also doing sterling work promoting the links between Shorncliffe and Canada.

The links with Canada’s southern neighbour are rarely mentioned. Indeed it is difficult to find any acknowledgement that there was an American connection.

John, “Black Jack” Pershing the Commander of the American Expeditionary Force, (A.E.F.) traveled through Folkestone on his way to France. Also remembered for not saying “Lafayette we are here”. With him was Charles Stanton, chiefly not remembered for his famous remark,  “Nous voila, Lafayette“.

Americans also stayed at No.3 Rest Camp on the Leas before marching down Slope Road to the harbour and the ships waiting to take them to France. Two soldiers from the United states 11th Engineering Regiment (Railways) who were to become the first casualties from the A.E.F. were at the rest camp on the Leas. There is also another almost forgotten connection with the United States.

The United States is well known for the respect Americans pay to their war dead. American Great War Cemeteries are impressive places. They are very proud of the role their soldiers played. Yet there is a lost almost forgotten army of American dead. Those that fought in other nations uniforms. They are buried in cemeteries all over the world and ignored by Americans. For some the connection to the United States begs the question of, how do we define nationality, and does it matter? Others there is no doubt of their nationality. These are the Folkestone/Shorncliffe dead with an American connection. All are buried in Shorncliffe Military Cemetery, all are listed in The Foreign Burial of American War Dead by Chris Dickon.

James Desmond McNulty                             IMG_8054Born in Valley City, North Dakota. killed in the Air Raid 25th May 1917

 

John Lucius Rumsdell                                                                                                                                       IMG_8051The husband of Letitia M Ramsdell, Brooklyn New York.

George Bates

IMG_8049Son of Norman and Sally Bates of Arkansas. Served in Mexico, presumably with the US Army. Married and lived with his wife in Vancouver. After his enlistment his wife moved to North Wales.

David Gordon, died of wounds received in France.                                                                                                                                                     IMG_8047

Born in Belfast, he was the son of James Gordon of 1 Bunker Hill Court, Charleston, West Virginia.

Ottawa GladmanIMG_8046

Born in Canada, and lived in Chicago. Died of Meningitis.

Charley HansonIMG_8045

Born in Norway, lived in Saskatchewan, married to Caroline Hanson of Fairchild Wisconsin, USA. Dad to six children. Charley had arrived in England on the SS Scandinavian. on the 5th February 1917. He died from illness.

David Gray

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Married to Annie Gray of Detroit, Michigan. Wounded on the Somme, he died at Manor Court Hospital, Folkestone.

Bert Arbuckle                                                                                                                                                     IMG_8043

Born in Indiana. Injured in the air raid on the 25th May 1917, he died of wounds the next day.

George Wheeler Armstrong.IMG_8042An American Eagle of the First World War. lots of references to the Americans who flew in the Lafayette Escadrille, few for those who flew with the RAF during the war. Born in the US Virgin Islands. Died in an accident while flying a Bristol F2b.

All nine were fighting for Britain, and it is only important to remember that, and them. When push comes to shove, and you need a helping hand, where people are from doesn’t matter one iota.